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A Chimney Sheep® is a highly efficient, removable chimney draught excluder made from felted Herdwick sheep’s wool. Our original and best-selling product ensures your home is heated efficiently by keeping the heat in and the cold draughts out.
We think a Chimney Sheep® is a no brainer! Why? Here are a few reasons:
This size is suitable for chimneys that are 8″ – 11″ deep (200 – 280mm) by 13″ – 19″ wide (330 – 480mm). Make sure the Chimney Sheep is an inch or two bigger on each dimension than the chimney you are fitting it into. It comes with a 6″ handle and 6″ extension rod, giving 12″ of reach altogether. This is a popular and versatile size, but if you’re not sure what to get have a look at our sizing chart.
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A Chimney Sheep® draught excluder is made from highly durable and naturally breathable Herdwick wool, from a Herdwick sheep. The wool is treated with a unique ionic protect plasma which makes it 100% moth proof and aids with the longevity of the Chimney Sheep® (we have customers that have had the same ones for nearly 10 years!). It is then felted to create a unique flexible yet sturdy material. This makes the Chimney Sheep® perfect to plug the gap just above a fireplace.
The woollen pad of the Chimney Sheep® compresses to fit perfectly flues of all shapes and sizes making it far more efficient than any other chimney draught excluder on the market. Inflatable chimney blockers and chimney umbrellas require a small gap to be left in your flue to allow ventilation but because wool is naturally breathable, a Chimney Sheep® doesn’t require that gap. Instead, once inserted into your chimney flue the 4.43 tog rated Chimney Sheep® acts like a duvet, blocking 95% airflow into and out of your chimney, whilst naturally permitting sufficient ventilation. It works to prevent warm air from escaping up the chimney and stopping cold air from coming in via the chimney when not in use, reducing the ‘stack effect’ phenomenon.
It is as simple as that! Read more about the stack effect and how a Chimney Sheep® works here.
The list is endless but here are a few of the main benefits:
It really does! Don’t take our word for it, here is all the evidence:
Absolutely. We are really passionate about the environment and sustainability. Everything from our sourcing of wool to our packaging is chosen with the environment in mind and the aim of our reducing our carbon footprint as much as we can.
All Chimney Sheep® are made here in our factory in Maryport, Cumbria, using Herdwick wool sustainably sourced from farmers around Cumbria. We collect the wool once a year which we call our ‘Operation Wool’ project. We pay the local farmers a fair price for this which is usually more than the market price and helps to support them.
The felt head of a Chimney Sheep® usually lasts about 10 years and is 100% wool which means it is completely biodegradable and compostable. The handles are made with recyclable plastic therefore are extremely durable and designed to last for decades. We have designed them so that when the felt head does wear out, you can just replace it with a new felt head and keep the same handle to reduce waste and the use of excess plastic. When the time comes and you have to say goodbye to your felt head, get in touch with us.
By using a Chimney Sheep® you are doing your bit to reduce your carbon footprint and we are really passionate about helping you to reduce your CO2 output even further. That is why we have set up our very own Community Interest Company, Buy Land Plant Trees, so that with each purchase a proportion of the profits will go towards planting trees on agriculturally poor land. Fancy reading some more about Buy Land Plant Trees? Click here!
All you need to do is measure your chimney. We promise, it sounds more complicated than it really is! Head over to our simple instructions which walk you through it. If you do have any trouble though, just get in touch and we can help.
Our standard Chimney Sheep sizes will fit the majority of chimney flues. However, each and every chimney (like us!) is unique so if your chimney doesn’t look like it will fit one of our standard sizes, contact us with the measurements and we will give you a quote for a made-to-measure Chimney Sheep® that will fit your chimney perfectly.
Ian Cross –
Bit of a shimmy to fit but it feels reassuringly snug and the heating bills did go down in the week following. Glad to use something with natural materials as well.
moojy –
Quality made product, but incredibly expensive for what it is. Gold plated sheep in Cumbria maybe? :-)
Not sure it does much for me tbh. I wonder if most of the reviewers above have a great honking Henry VIII fireplace with little protection and no cowl? Frankly anything could improve that desperate setup.
As it is, doesnt seem to have made the room notably warmer or less cold but it is quieter. Perhaps it hasnt quite gone in and sealed the space… cant really tell without crawling under and getting soot all over you. The thing isnt easy to fit at all unless you’re a chimney sweep, basically shoving it upwards blindly and then flapping your hand around to see if there are any leaks, and coming out all covered in soot.
Will see how well it works when things get really cold, but really not blown away so far.
Hayes –
Had to try a second size, which is still a little fiddly to fit with no gaps or buckled up holes. Super quiet once fitted, had a pillow up there before with a tube for ventilation so not much warmer but silent chimney even when there was a roaring wind.
I think possibly if it was thicker it would be better sealing but as it is draughts are cut & noise is much reduced.
Janet –
Here’s why I’m glad:
Eco-friendly materials
Made a noticeable difference immediately to the number of times the boiler cut in
Reduced the noise, not only the wind, but also, as others have noticed, pigeons cooing
I’m really glad I asked your advice about which size to buy, as I would have ordered a smaller one.
I’m useless at DIY etc but managed to fit this myself, despite being 73 with arthritic knees!
It’s stopped soot falling on my artistic (well, intending to look artistic) artificial flower arrangement in the grate.
The warmth is retained, which it never was before.
Considering the benefits, the reasonable cost is well worth it.
Jayne –
Seems to be effective. I missed the worst of the winter when I found this product so not fully tested. Our measuring wasn’t great so bought one perhaps a bit too large, but seems to work well. What I like about this product is that we do like an occasional open fire, I am able to easily remove and use the fire on those occasions. But we find we don’t need them so often !
Allen Moore –
Does exactly what it says, stops draughts and noise. Room warms up faster as there’s no heat loss up the chimney.
Katherine Johnson –
I fitted Chimney Sheep into three Victorian bedroom chimneys which were closed with integral iron lids. They were easy to fit. The change in room temperature was immediate and I have been able to turn the radiators down. What I did not expect was the reduction in noise from outside. The peace and quiet as the Chimney Sheep blocked road and railway noise , jackdaw and gull calls and even the voices of passers-by in the street, was so profound that it took a few nights to get used to. I bought Chimney Sheep to improve thermal insulation and the product has cured a problem that I didn’t even know I had!
Judy –
I live in a 1930’s semi, with shared chimneys.
My neighbour has an open fire in the grate on his side, which I could often smell.
I used to get lots of brick dust falling into my hearth during rainy and snowy weather.
I could hear pigeons cooing on top of the chimney, which was irritating.
I could hear traffic noise from the main road, which is a fair way away, especially motorbikes.
My sitting room was also difficult to get warm and cosy in the evenings.
No more!!! My Chimney Sheep has cured all of the above problems!
Julian Wootten –
Replacing a gas fire with an inset electric fire with a fan heater the advice was to have my chimney professionaly sealed otherwise the fan heater won’t work properly. I was intending to buy a chimney balloon but too many negative reviews put me off. This is a much better and easier solution that works really well. I fitted this a few days before the UK was subject to storm Franklin quickly followed by storm Dudley and then Eunice, and I didn’t feel any drafts coming down the chimney. Whilst the size guide was very useful I did seek advice on what was the best shape and size to buy.
Janet Rymer –
I bought this as I have a Victorian House with open fires in all rooms. I used to have chimney balloons which were very noisy when it rained. The Chimney Sheep is fantastic , easy to fit and very effective. No more draughts now. Would highly recommend.
Laura –
Really effective draught excluder for the chimney. The room is much warmer now.
GP –
Much better and easier to install than the real sheep we had tried. But at least we have our own black sheep in the family now.
Geoff –
Small bedroom – Victorian chimney. Fits well and stops the wind howling down and heat going up. Brilliant natural solution!
Catherine Mason –
Excellent product, easy to fit, does exactly what it’s supposed to !
Phil –
We live in an old house with unused, and large chimney flues. Lots of crud comes down them too.
Chimney sheep came very quickly and was easy to install. What a great product@
Michael –
What an excellent product! 100% success in preventing heat loss and draughts up the chimney, while still allowing the chimney to naturally breathe. Very noticeable improvement in room temperature. Easy to install and remove, and very quick delivery by Chimney Sheep.
Emily de Vere –
Quick delivery, great quality. Cuts down on the drafts and noise….hoping getting rid of condensation too!
Ricky Emanuel –
This is a good product that does what it says on the tin. It is easy to install and allows a little air flow in the chimney which is good but it cuts both up and down drafts. It was a bit fiddly measuring inside the flue and a dirty job ( wear rubber gloves) but it was simple finding the correct size Chimney sweep from the table on the website.
Leanne & Christian –
We had two issues –
1. Our house was cold, and the chimney was letting in a good breeze.
2. Our cat really was intrigued by what was up the chimney – and often we’d find her tail hanging down because she’d climbed up.
Our chimney sheep was delivered quickly and was really easy to get in. Now we have a much warmer house and no disappearing act or dusty cat.
Bob –
Easy to fit, keeps the draughts out and the heat in. Also keeps down noise from birds on the chimney.
Alex –
Ordering process simple and effective – arrived when advertised.
Room cooldown rate noticeably slower than before. Job done!
Kirsty –
Really made a difference as had an incredibly open chimney. Wind noise was instantly reduced and room certainly feels a good bit warmer, before I would walk in and be taken aback at the chill. Brother has one also and felt it was worth the money too. Arrived quickly, no fuss purchase – even recommended on my YouTube channel to others.
Deborah Lawrence-Wilson –
Now I have a chimney sheep my sitting room is much warmer, and in particular my feet don’t end up numb with cold as there isn’t a howling gale blowing across the room at floor level. Not only do I not need to dig out my thermal socks and huge woolly slippers every time the temperature drops, but I’m sure my energy bills will be lower. Highly recommended.
Heather Cox –
Our Chimney sheep fitted securely and is now helping us to keep snug and warm. Brilliant idea. Actually, the Herdwick is my favourite breed!
Sherran Jones –
Immediate difference to a warmer room – stops draughts, heat escaping up the chimney, lessens the sound of windy weather, easy to install. If you have an open chimney, I highly recommend this.
Adam –
Very pleased with our ‘chimney sheep’. A great product. It stopped the draught completely.
Tracey Woodward –
Really makes a difference to draft and noise coming down chimney. Used with a c cap on chimney top and very pleased with results. Highly recommended.
Peter –
I immediately noticed the difference one the Chimney Sheep was fitted. No draughty and the room feels more comfortable. I’m sure it’s saving me money on my gas bill as the room remains comfortably warm for longer.
Thoroughly recommend. Well made and I’m sure will last for many years.
Laura Allen –
I moved into a house with two open fireplaces, and have no plans to use them but was hesitant to convert them as it is expensive and someone in the future may appreciate them, but the chimney sheep provided a cheap and effective solution to avoid drafts while being easily removable!
Bill Goldie –
Fitted and noticed difference within a few hours. Much better than stuffing an old cushion up! Room much warmer now and wind noise reduced. Also almost all dirt falling down onto fire from chimney eliminated.
Maggie Bain –
Excellent – feel the results immediately. Love the website and the info that arrived with my sheep !
Christine –
I would not have thought that a bit of herdwick fleece would have made all the difference but it certainly does. We recently replaced a gas fire with an inset electric fire with fan heater in fireplace which has a traditional chimney. We did not think that there would be much of a draught – how wrong were we. Also, the down-draught from chimney affected the running of the fan heater which struggled when it was windy outside.
So just by putting up the Chimney Sheep draught excluder (which was very easy to do) not only stopped those chilly drafts but it made the electric fan heater work much much better. It has made so much difference to the ambient room warmth too so that the fan heater does not need to be on as long as it is thermatically controlled.
Its such a lovely product and I am loving reading about the wonderful news about getting grant for tree-planting etc in the 13-acre field in Lake District. Well done look forward to reading about your progress.
Lynne Rogers –
The difference this product makes is unbelievable. As soon as I installed it the difference was wonderful. No noise and no more drafts. Very easy to install. Well worth the money.
Janine –
Been meaning to get these for a long time. Really makes a difference to the temperature in our home. Should have done this years ago.
Fiona –
Bought this after having the chimneys swept in our new house. We had had Chimney Sheep before, but not in this chimney. The few days it took to arrive (over the two coldest nights of the year so far) meant that once fitted we really noticed the difference – cuts down the airflow and noise from the birds! Responsive service team
WD –
As others have mentioned, measuring your chimney is the trickiest part. The sheep arrived quickly and installation was easy. As suggested by the makers I stuck it up the chimney wrapped in a plastic bag first to make sure it fitted before getting it sooty. I really noticed the difference when storms Arwen and Barra hit – no wind or soot down the chimney. I’m glad I bought one.
Kunal –
Excellent device. I was quite dubious this would work as we had a draft coming into the room from under the door in the lounge, no matter how much we tried to stop this with draft excluders somehow the air would come into the room. I found the website useful when it mentioned something about the stack effect and this sheep excluded everything! I hope to have an excellent winter ahead of me now…
Soo –
Really pleased with my Chimney Sheep, room is so much warmer, no risk of inadvertently lighting the fire with newspaper still up the chimney and like the fact that the products are made in the Lake District. Many thanks!
ian Cawood –
After struggling last winter with an old pillow in the flue, my excellent chimney sweep recommended Chimney Sheep. I followed the guidelines for measuring, got my order, pushed the draught excluder in with the handle and then pulled it back once it was inside and bingo – a perfect seal. Brilliant, well done Cumbria and thank you to the Herdwicks who produced this lovely wool.
I’ll recommend Chimney Sheep to everyone with an unused open fire
Jo Allen –
We bought our chimney sheep in Oct before the weather had turned cold, but immediately noticed a difference to the warmth in the room.
Now that the heating is on the room is so much warmer than it’s ever been before. Chimney Sheep really do work :D
Should have bought one years ago!
Pete –
This is a simple but great product. Working out the sizing required before purchase was probably the hardest bit and it’s obviously advisable to go for a larger size if in doubt. The chimney above our open gas fire in the living room was the biggest source of heat loss in our house but no longer thanks to Chimney Sheep. Looks to have made over a 1°C temperature increase in the house. Brilliant
Mrs S Birri –
Our order came quickly and was easy to install. Why didn’t I find you before! Much warmer in our Living Room. Thank you Chimney Sheep you come highly recommended!
Michael Forbes –
I bought one of these after having an air source heat pump fitted. I looked at the baloons but just didn’t like them. Also, I have a strange shaped chimney hole, that starts at 30cm x 15 with a lip, bends to the left and rear while it narrows as it rises then opens up to about 70 x 30 very after about 75cm. It changes from rectangle to oval , a combination of both and then back to rectangle. I figure that the builder must have been bored. I had an idea where my sheep would fit, but wasn’t sure, so I bought a 30 x 50. My thought process was to buy oversize because as it was wool, it would bend and fit to where I needed it. It arrived quickly, the handle (great idea) went together simply and it took just a few minutes to fit it in the right spot. It’s a very robust item, flexible enough to go where you want it but strong enough to stay there. Great design because it does what it says it’s going to do with no fuss or bother.
Yasmin Yazdani –
This has made a real improvement in my bedroom and it was super easy to use – you literally just stick it up the flue and you’re done. Delivery was quick and easy too.
SueD –
Messy to install in stepped chimney, but certainly worth the minor inconvenience, and has already reduced soot fall down chimney too! Lovely and toasty!
Elizabeth Banks –
Put together and fitted in the chimney within minutes of its arrival through the post. No more draughts or bits falling down. Delighted
FrankFran –
A bit messy measuring our oddly shaped flue and slight anxiety that I’d order the wrong size, along with a sooty head and the odd expletive during fitting …..However all that paled into insignificance when I experienced my warmer, draught -free and quieter lounge. My only regret is that I didn’t buy one sooner! Would not hesitate to recommend.
Karin Chrobok –
Took a while to measure the chimney, but was easy peasy to install. Works a treat
Matt Crowder –
My third house and my third Chimney Sheep – very simple and easy to install. Like the ethos of the company too.
Peter Watson –
The instructions on measuring the chimney dimensions are clear but I found the process difficult. Having three chimneys, all different sizes, I ordered a Chimney Sheep that I was confident would fit one of them and tried it in all three chimneys before ordering the other two Sheep. The Sheep are easy to fit and have good reminders that they are there. The draughts seem less but it remains to be seen whether I use less gas
Alison Ball –
I love the chimney sheep not only for its ease and effectiveness, but also because of the ethos of the company. I would certainly recommend this to others.
Tristan Broadhead –
After a few years of trying every trick in the book to stop the freezing cold gale force blowing under my living room door that made the room very cold a friend suggested a Chimney Sheep. I literally could drop a sheet of paper in front of the door and it would fly across the room with the force of the draught. After following the very simple fitting instructions the draft has all but disappeared, I couldn’t believe how good the chimney sheep was. It really is the best money I’ve spent in a long while! I’d certainly recommend them to anyone with an open fire!
Tom O’Donovan –
Really happy with the chimney sheep. It didn’t take long to measure or fit. So far our dining room has remained a more consistent temperature and there’s no draught coming down the chimney. There’s never a fire lit in there and we never intend to, so this seemed like an excellent solution. So far we’ve not been disappointed.
Tracey Torley –
Makes an amazing difference. Fabulous product.
Amanda J –
This is a fantastic product and I wish I had found it sooner. We use our fire a lot in the Winter, however the Chimney Sheep is really easy to put in place and remove, and it has made such a difference . One very happy cat and Chihuahua!!
Catherine –
Much better than a chimney balloon. Really clear website with helpful guidance on how to measure and fit. Efficient ordering and delivery. Strongly recommend swimming goggles when fitting to avoid soot in the eyes!
Judith –
I was very sceptical – especially when this rather small, flat package arrived. I’d already had a cowl fitted at a cost of over £100 , but was still getting awful noise which caused my electrician to ask “do you have a pride of lions up your chimney?” We’ve fitted the chimney sheep and now I have no noise at all!
Jules Hardman –
My cast iron fireplace is decorative rather than a working fireplace and previously I had one of those inflatable balloons up the chimney. Instantly no draft obviously can’t comment on heating bills yet but optimistic. Easy online instructions how to measure and how to install. (Be prepared for a little bit of soot to fall when fitting the pad in place) Definitely recommend.
John Hammond –
It was great to have an opportunity to use a locally sourced, natural product and support a good environmental cause too. Measuring up is a bit tricky as others have said but it’s worth making the effort to get it right. Otherwise it was very easy to fit and the safety tag is clearly visible hanging in the fireplace. I haven’t been through a winter yet with my Chimney Sheep in place so I don’t know how effective it is at keeping out draughts. But it’s already keeping the fireplace clean. I have gifted the wool insoles to a fisherman who spends a lot of time in wellies on chilly river banks. I’ll let you know what he thinks.
Gimleteye –
It was really fiddly measuring for this, my Georgian hob grate fireplace is tiny but the aperture was then surprisingly large in comparison, so correct measuring is vital! The Chimney Sheep arrived very quickly and was installed in less time than it took me to measure in the first place. No more bits falling down the chimney now and no draughts. Very pleased, it’s a neat solution.
Brad Wilkins –
Does the job exactly, almost no draft down the chimney now
SFS –
It is not a cheap item and we were a bit anxious before buying it due to reviews which said it was hard to install. Not our experience, I think due to good planning by my husband. We have a 17th century inglenook fireplace into which previous owners had installed a lightweight fireproof lining resulting in an irregular opening. OH measured it very carefully and allowed good extra allowance. He had to stand on a short stepladder in the fireplace but it went up first go in a matter of minutes. It looks very secure – unlike the chimney balloons we have tried in the past. Very thick and should provide great insulation. We do not have open fires any more so it can stay there permanently. So glad we opted for it.
Mrs. C. Davies –
This is brilliant the difference in temperature in the bedroom after the easy insulation is amazing
monica –
Very happy with the product, it really improved the draught problem we had.
NE –
Not yet been able to use the product as extensions required.
Tudor –
At last a chimney block that actually works. I purchased this in hope that it would stop the draught coming down the chimney, having tried useless balloons, and it works. It fits well in to the chimney void and stays there and it doesn’t deflate. Wonderful purchase
Emma C –
Great product, I have two this size & the largest. They stop draughts coming down the chimney and warm air from being lost. The rooms are warmer and my bills are down on last year when I didn’t have them. They also allow the chimney to breath, which is important as you don’t want condensation forming. Might seem expensive, but the plastic ones don’t last very long and still let cold air down/warm air up at the corners. These will last a long time and can be washed. They also stop a lot of dust and crud coming down the chimney, so less dusting too.
Jennifer White –
Used to stop draught from chimney. Very pleased. My lounge is now draught free and much warmer
Amazon Customer –
Screw handle to head – Fits snuggly into place. Draft has been excluded!! A five second job!!!
Happy, and warmer customer definitely recommends
Ali –
This is almost invisible and completely excludes draughts. It is easy to fit.
As we cannot use the fire for real, we removed the handle to make it even neater, but you should not do that if there is ever a possibility of lighting the fire.
Mrs J Brown –
Brilliant product!! Easy to install & definitely stops the draught. Highly recommend
Kev lane –
Instantly the roomMuch warmer no cold draft coming down the chimney and no warmer going up should’ve got one ages ago Cheers
David Hughes –
This Chimney Sheep is great! Fits nice and looks ok too. I am using it for my gas insert fire on my old traditional Victorian fire with an open chimney which is quite wide. It doesn’t cover the whole width of the breast as I bought it to cover the opening at the top of the fire.
It has made such a BIG difference to the heat loss in my dining room, I really cannot believe how much warmer that room is. I would highly recommend gerting one of these if you are losing heat when not using your fire. 5*s from me.
M. Allum –
After eventually getting the size right (through no fault but my own) found the product of excellent quality. It blocks the chimney well while keeping breathability so not to cause damp issues. Room doesn’t feel miraculously warmer but draft has reduced. Would recommend but not sure that a stuffed blanket couldn’t do the same..
Dos –
These chimney sheep are great, they are well made and have stopped the drafts in our home. One thing I would say is, measure your chimney openings carefully and be prepared for some soot and dirt to come down on you, as I found fitting these up the chimney a little tricky, within the openings we have. However, they were and are well worth, that little bit of hassle.
Kindle Customer –
This product family can be costly; knowing your chimney dimensions is therefore essential. In my chimney it was impossible to get a reliable measure beyond the fire-clay surround. Opted for the 12 by 20 (£38.99) so that I could pull it snug (convex down, concave up). Living on the edge of the Derbyshire Peak District the winds in Autumn/Winter are frequently a problem creating an updraft that then creates drafts in the room. Thought the felt pad of product would be thicker. IMPORTANT TO KNOW: I have given 3 stars based on cost, and will edit the review once I have had the opportunity to judge its effectiveness. I am optimistic.
Joe –
Since installing chimney sheep in my chimneys I have noticed less draft and wind noise, as well as taking less time for rooms to heat up. I live in a Victorian house so with cast iron fireplaces it is hard to insulate and keep cold air out. With these it keeps the aesthetic of the cast iron fireplace, without the cold drafts.
AbiC –
Bought the wrong size initially but ended up using it elsewhere. This really made a difference to our front room temperature.
We got the chimney swept for the first time (just moved in) and the sweep rated it as well because it’s breathable rather than just entirely blocking airflow.
Lorna F –
Very easy to install. Much better than the old pillows I had put up the chimney previously
Akin Savage –
The chimney sheep has made a noticeable difference. Our lounge feels a lot less cold than it used to.
Natalie –
As others have said this may be a little pricey but it’s certainly effective.
Measuring took a little effort and soot mess but was otherwise manageable.
The chimney sheep arrived quickly and was easy to assemble. Installation was a little messy but we were fitting it in spring when the fire had had a fair amount of winter use and a few months since it was swept.
The area around our fireplace is noticeably warmer and no more rogue bits of sooty hail have made their way to our floor.
We chose this over a chimney pillow because of the advice that it still allows air flow and we were given the impression it will be warmer than the plastic inflatable alternative.
UK Reviewer –
We recently moved into an old flat with two open chimneys, having no idea about the massive draughts. Did a bit of research into different options, and discovered the ‘chimney sheep’. Was a little messy measuring the chimney to find out the right size. But once that’s done, it takes 30 seconds to install (or remove) and effectively blocks all the draught. A flawless solution for those weeks/months when you’re not using the fireplace!
S Gibson –
We have one room that is always a bit chilly, so I tried a smoke test and one of the culprits was the chimney taking warm air up it, so after some investigation I thought this was the best answer, it fits and does its job, no more warm air going up it! But it is not sealed as air can move up or down but very slowly through the wool, lets hope it helps as it should do.
Lulu –
This item arrived quickly and does the job expertly. It was easy to install and has cut the draught from my chimney as well as reducing noise from my neighbour. The fact that it is washable is great too.
cherokee40 –
Took longer to measure the chimney than it did to fit item. Lack of draughts was immediately apparent. Why did I not buy one earlier!!!!